Question Mark Cobb? Glad You Asked (EPISODE 1-INTERVIEW)

Mark Cobb has spent decades helping artists build careers, bands, and legacies -- but behind every great story is a balancing act between music, family, and figuring out what really matters. 

In this episode of Starting Rumours: My Life as a Mockstar, Mark and I talk about creating something that lasts, the sometimes complicated relationship between music and politics, and what it takes to stay grounded while juggling life on and off the road. We also dive into the importance of community, finding your voice, and why success means different things at different stages of life. 

Plus, Mark has put together a special playlist featuring songs he's played on over the years, and you'll find a link to it in the show notes. 

So grab your headphones and join us for a thoughtful, funny, and honest conversations with one of music's true road warriors. 

FOLLOW MARK COBB: 

www.markcobb.com 

@questionmarkcobb on Instagram

LISTEN TO MARK'S PLAYLIST: 

https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/m-discography/pl.u-MDAWq23sWyVakj

FOLLOW STARTING RUMOURS:

www.rumoursatl.com

@startingrumourspod on Instagram

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

There are some musicians you notice because they're flashy. And then there are the ones who quietly make you stop and say, oh, this person really knows what they're doing. Mark Cobb has always been one of those people for me. I first became aware of Mark as the original drummer and founder of Yacht Rock Review. And while their Yacht Rock show is impressive, because let's be honest, Todo is no joke on drugs. It wasn't actually that set that made me sit up and pay attention. It was their dark side of the moon night. Watching Mark play that material surrounded by gadgets behind his kit and timing everything perfectly to each song completely blew me away. It was precise, thoughtful, and deeply musical. The kind of performance that tells you someone has put real time into understanding the craft, not just the parts. I'd known of Mark and seen him play long before rumors existed. We've crossed paths a handful of times over the years. Quick hollows, conversations online, and every interaction has come with his signature mix of sharp humor and smart ass commentary. He's goofy, quick-witted, and wildly knowledgeable. Often all at the same time. This is my conversation with Mark Cobb. All right. So Mark Cobb, where are you answering these questions from today?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

I am in uh Atlanta, Georgia, technically Decatur, which is where when I first moved to Atlanta, our bandhouse was actually located like a minute away from here. Like I could walk there. So ironically, I ended up um buying a house here uh years later after all the other groups that I had played in. But yeah, it was uh it was kind of music is what brought me here, and I'm still down here doing it. So uh yeah, I'm in Decatur, Georgia, and um actually in my house right now, just getting some work done, and I was happy to schedule this interview with you before I had to go teach some private lessons.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yeah, and what's the weather like down there? Because here in Michigan, it is raining and extremely cold.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah, you are in that same. I lived in Indiana um from the year I was born up until I lived a couple other places off and on throughout uh finishing college in Indiana. But yeah, I remember those spring, this the beginning of spring. There was one year where I think it rained the entire month of April. We never saw the sun. So um, yeah, and if it's not that, it's it's snow and and Arctic temperatures coming off of the Great Lakes up there. So I can totally relate. But yeah, now we're having like the heavy pollen season. So I just took a clariton this morning because it's the only way it's like it's all my drum students are coming in, like, you know, sneezing and watery eyes. It's it's that time of year where everything is covered in that green dust. Um, but it's it's like 80 degrees, it's actually a little warm for my taste. But you know, I shouldn't complain because you know, you probably would like to have a little bit of warm weather where you are.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

I would love to see the sun. We we live like two blocks from Lake Michigan, and every now and then I'll be taking the dog outside, and I'm like, okay, you can get through this. It's gonna be okay. And it's so cold and my teeth are chattering. It's like no matter how many layers you put on, it's just in your bones, it's so cold.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Yeah, I lived in Chicago. Uh the year before I actually moved here, I was living in Chicago, which was polar opposites from from our weather here. And yeah, that bone chilling, like the lake effect, the that why they call it the Windy City, it is something if you haven't been there for that time of year, it's something to experience before you decide to move there. That was an easy way for me to be like, okay, I I've I've done that now. Um, but you know, it it was it was cool up there. And also what I love is as soon as the first nice day comes along, everybody is out. Like it's it's packed, the beaches are crowded, all the outdoor seating is filled. It's like they have to you have to so charge your batteries before the next, you know, I guess fall comes along. So, but yeah, I'm glad you're uh you're you're at least getting uh to spend some time inside with the with the kids because you have two little ones.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Or at least one one fairly new little one.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Yeah, six months. He just turned six months um last week, and then the the girl is gonna be six this Sunday on Easter. Uh my next question is what are you currently working on, musical or otherwise, that has you excited?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Well, you know, I I touring was was was fun until it wasn't, and I think that you have to look at the like, you know, the bright side of with you know either side of the coin with any job. Um, I think the the fans show up and they see you on stage. And even my parents were like, you know, it must be a dream job to not have to go to work every day. I'm like, oh it is it is yes, I love being on stage. And even that sometimes, you know, you run into some really awkward situations with a crew when you arrive, or you know, if you're not if you don't have your own sound guys and you're using the people that work there, um, you know, some nights are not what you predict going into it, and it's a struggle. And then there's just obviously the are we going to make it to the next city? Are we gonna have our our you know transportation breakdown? Is the hotel room gonna be reserved ahead of time? There's always that like, you know, we called it the game of gig, where it's like almost like rolling the dice and and moving along the board. You're just like, what's gonna happen when we get to this next thing? When I was in my 20s, that felt kind of fun and you know, not dangerous, but it just felt like a you know, the challenge was part of the experience. And then it gets to the point where you're coming home and you're just on empty. You have nothing to give your kids, you have nothing to give your family. You're like just you just need two days to, you know, hide under a blanket. And you can't do that when you have a family. I mean, I guess you can, but then you know, see what you get out of that. But um, but you know, so now without the touring, I've gotten to really invest in, you know, doing things creatively that I didn't either have the time or energy for before. Um, you know, I got back into teaching, which in some ways I was apprehensive about because I remember how how difficult it was to have 20 to 30 students a week, um, all different skill levels, you know, all different levels of uh how how seriously they take their practice, you know. But I find that I learn more about myself and my playing through teaching other people, you know, than if I was just studying under somebody else. Like I'm actually having to create lesson plans where I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot. At some point I had to learn how to do this correctly. And I'm going back and rediscovering a lot of things about my playing, which then when I do have a gig or a studio session, I can, you know, apply that to that. So I feel like we're always growing or we should always be growing. I never get to the point where I'm like, I got it down. I've learned everything. Yeah, I'm still like every day discovering, oh yeah, there's still some stuff out there that I would love to learn how to do. And now I'm having a little bit more time and freedom to do that. And I have a home recording studio. So I can work on tracks here, or you know, for the people that are still having studios in Atlanta, so many of them have closed or been demolished. Um, you know, there are some a few studios that are still operating. I can go in and do session work, which has always been one of my favorite things, you know, to like have a microscope, you know, under your playing. The the live thing is so it's fun in the moment because you get that energy from the crowd. You get an immediate response to your playing, but then it's it evaporates, it's gone. It's just in the moment. Recordings live on forever, for good or bad. You have that document to say, like, wow, that was a really fun time of my life. I remember making that record. Or I remember, you know, being creative with the producer and coming up with something I wouldn't have normally done. And, you know, or or even just if you're lucky enough to hear something on like, even if it's satellite radio or something, uh a song that you played on comes on. And that's that's a cool feeling that's totally different than the live aspect. So um, but yeah, I'm I'm just playing in a few different groups around town. Um, you know, people that I was that I've known for years that discovered that I wasn't on the road anymore. And most of it's corporate, you know, it's either playing a private event, you know, weddings, uh, corporate parties. And then, you know, this guy Mike Veal has hired tons of drummers over the year, uh, over the years, and I always knew about him. He's actually trying to start a John Mellencamp tribute.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

I think it's genius. I think you know what?

SPEAKER_00 9:04

I don't think any anybody's doing that. And Mellencamp's going out on tour this summer doing his greatest hits, which he hasn't done in decades. Like, he kind of does whatever he wants, sort of like Springsteen. Like, he can put out a new record and just play that, and people are fine with it. Yeah. Um, but now he he knows he doesn't have, you know, the infinite amount of time left to tour. So he wants to go out and play his hits. And I've seen these videos of him on Instagram, like working out with the personal trainer with a shirt off. And he looks pretty good for his age, but he's got a cigarette in his mouth.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

I'm like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 9:36

So, you know, I think it'd be fun, you know, fun to go back out and play just some theaters here and there, playing some uh, you know, some shows. I know that music liked the back of my hand because not only was Mellencamp there, you know, kind of present on campus all the time, but Kenny Earnoff is drummer taught there, and I got to study with him when I was at IU. So it makes sense, you know, it's a really easy thing for me to do. And I don't think it's gonna be like a touring situation. I think we'll just go out, like do a run on the East Coast, play a few theaters up there, and so working on that, and then you know, just whatever, whatever calls I get, like I'm playing with this band Funk Cake for a party coming up. They do a lot of stuff like for Marty Gras. It's like all horns and drums. There's no guitar, no keyboards. It's literally like you know, a New Orleans street party with just the tuba plays the bass line, and I'm basically holding down the second line grooves. And um, I've done a couple shows with them, so it's it's cool. Like I get really random calls to do to step into gigs, and um, yeah, that that stuff keeps me uh keeps me excited because it's it's never the same thing every day.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Yeah, that sounds awesome, actually. I need to come see that and the name Funk Cake, that's rad.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah, it's this it's crazy. It's a trumpet player who actually has played on some corporate stuff where they need a horn section, and so he reached out to me, just you know, he was like, Hey, you know, would you ever be interested in filling in for our drummer? It's it's funny how drummers are the hardest guys to nail down for a gig.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Band a band that I've known over the years, it's always the most subbed out position for whatever reason. Um, you know, and you can't have a decent band without a a great drummer. Like you can have an okay rhythm guitarist or somebody that can kind of fake their way around keys, but if the drums aren't happening, that everything else kind of crumbles.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Oh, yeah, totally, completely not to shoot my own horn, but well, that leads us into some other questions that I have for sure. Um, so my next question that I have for you is for people who somehow don't know, how did Yacht Rock Review actually begin?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

So, yeah, the the guys that I moved here with were both Indiana graduates as well. And we were in an original band there. Uh, and that band, you know, was looking at places to live because I think we all realized that Indianapolis or anywhere around Indiana was not going to have as much access to playing showcases, meeting with agents. And I think Nashville felt a little too still close to home and kind of more focused on country. So we moved to Atlanta. Um, well, they had actually moved here first, and then they can, when they found out I was leaving Chicago, they kind of reached out and said, we have a bandhouse here, you know, if you want to come move in with us. So that was an easy transition. And um, that band went through, you know, several different genres. I mean, we were kind of at the end of our uh, you know, I guess tenure playing a bunch of gigs around town. I mean, all the same places you've you've been to and played. Smith Bar, you know, we played or the Earl Star Bar, trying to open up for bands at Variety Playhouse. Yeah. Um, we were more, I would say, kind of like in the Americana genre, you know, like what was happening with like Wilco and My Morning Jacket, more of that kind of, you know, just rock and roll, but with a lot of Beatles, melodic influence. And we had also been like a power pop group for a while. We had other musicians that had been in the band that left. We were more like, I feel like what OKGo started doing, which was really like smart, you know, like stuff influenced by by the cars and you know, some new wave stuff from the 80s. But that band eventually started to realize we weren't gonna probably make a living at doing this. And we were all getting to the point where we were getting married and discussing having families. So I think we needed to pivot. And we met Greg Lee, his wife was actually booking the Tin High, which is underneath I don't, I think it's just called the Dark Horse now. But um, that dark horse, that basement where they had a lot of the meddlesome, you know, karaoke. You know, she was looking for something to be a regular night there because they were moving away from booking original artists and doing more of like tributes, which is everywhere now. Um so that kind of spawned a conversation that we could do sort of a tribute night, and we did everything from ironically, Fleetwood Mac. Um, in fact, I think we had Vanessa Oliveras singing with us, who now lives in Nashville. But we met her. We used, you know, we started reaching out to these musicians. We met Mark Dunnells, um, you know, who who had kind of like finished touring with David Bryan Harris. Uh, he was in a in a in a group with a bunch of guys from Atlanta. And, you know, I think everybody was starting to move into that land of, you know, either doing studio work or starting some sort of tribute. And, you know, we did like the Eagles. We did actually did a Mellon Camp tribute, which ended up getting booked for the Stone Mountain Chili Cook-Off one year. And just some really weird experiences where we were like, well, this is not gonna be the thing, but it's fun, you know, and it's like we don't have to take credit for whether these songs go over well or not. I mean, it's like all these artists had huge hits. I think we did uh NX versus, I want to say Duran Duran. You know, we had like Chris Cox, who had performed in an original group, uh, The Greater of a Voom with Mark Donnells. So we just got all these different singers and musicians that we liked around town. And we were like, show up, learn this one song, and then we were the house band for that. Eventually we started looking at this AM Gold tribute. And at the time, that yacht rock series had sort of breaking through like viral before TikTok, before we know we've seen what are now viral videos through social media. YouTube had a channel called Channel 101, and it was a way to submit amateur videos and sort of like Nelson ratings, where they can see how many people are watching a show to see what the ratings are. They would do that for the clicks on this YouTube channel. And these guys from LA, they're a bunch of like improv comedians. They started this thing called Yacht Rock, where they all dressed up. I'm sure you've seen it or at least heard about it. They dress up like Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins and they shoot it like it's like a mockumentary, like you know, they're they're they're getting together in the studio, and you know, they're doing these impersonations of these, you know, artists that were basically either considered soft rock, you know, or um, you know, like I said, a lot of them were one-hit wonders that wouldn't exist otherwise if it weren't for that genre. So it was really fun rather than pay tribute to an artist, which at that time, uh man, there were probably three Michael Jackson tributes going on. This was before I think we were really in the thick of massive, massive uh tributes to everybody out there.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

But I mean, there was nobody books anymore.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

It is. I mean, the Avon Theater, which has gone through lots of changes over the years, right here in Avondale. I mean, you can look at their calendar, there is a an occasional singer-songwriter there. And otherwise, it is even people like Michelle Malone, who we used to open up for um as an original group for her, she's now in this thing called like Ladies of the Canyon. And it's a tribute to the, you know, all the music from the from the West Coast, like the whole Joni Mitchell scene. So it's like that's that's what everybody has had to do to sustain a career. Um, but you know, that the the idea that the reason I think it took off, and it was definitely lightning in the bottle. When we first did it, people were like, What? What is this? Like you're gonna do you're gonna do soft rock because Hollow Notes at that time was still sort of like uh considered maybe cheesy, like that's your parents' music, like like what I would consider guilty pleasure. And I never understood why do you feel guilty guilty if something brings you pleasure? You know, like if I mean we could go into the psychology of that, but but the the idea that like if you if you hear you make my dreams come true, it immediately whether you whether it feels cringy to you or not, you it's undeniably one of the catchiest songs.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

And so you pair that with you know a Michael McDonald song, you or you know, What a Fool Believes, and then you get into like you know, Christopher Cross, where that's where you start to really get into that kind of adult contemporary. What I had actually started was this thing called dentist's office rock. I had this mixed CD that I had made uh at work from all this, you know, music that I had been listening to because it's so inoffensive that you could play it in an office setting and nobody's gonna be like, hey, turn turn the music off. So Nick and I were working together at this insurance job to make a living in between playing music. And I in this dentist's office was just like what I remember listening to when I would go to get, you know, a cavity filled or whatever at the dentist. And I can just remember it being like Boss Gags and you know, these these like artists that I just for some reason, I guess it was like it it made me feel sentimental for that era of being in my parents' station wagon and hearing, you know, James Taylor or hearing some of these songs that were so like you know, obviously not Led Zeppelin and not all the other rock and roll that I really listened to as a drummer, but stuff that was still like so well written and you know, Jackson Brown and all these songs that like had great session players. Um, you know, Michael McJack uh sorry, Michael Jackson's record uh was made up of basically the rhythm section from Toto. So then you you you play Africa, and these fans that were at our shows early on were like high-fiving, like like they were at a frat party. Yeah. And it's just like it's like, what is what is going on with this resurgence of, and I think it's nostalgia. I think at the time when we were playing, you know, it was like kind of the beginning of people really starting to feel down about a lot of things going on with politics and just in general with watching what was going on in the in the in the world, and like you turn on the news, and it was like we needed a break from that. Escapism. So yeah, escapism, 100%. And that's what your Fleetwood Mac show is, or that's what your if you go to see a Michael Jackson tribute or a Beatles tribute, you know, these things like rain. It I I I look out and I see like young kids and then their grandparents, and they're all singing at the top of their lungs, and they're escaping for that two hours, uh, almost like going to a movie or whatever. You once you're there, you turn everything else off, and you are in that decade, or you are in that experience. And that also started to kind of like turn into people wearing captain's hats. And so we would sell these things that we bought for, you know, whatever, $1.50 a hat, and we're selling it for $10. And so we're making a profit off of selling something that we didn't even come up with. It was like, oh, well, that's what you wear, even if you don't wear polyester, which a lot of people started dressing up, and we had costume contests, and we would give out thrift store vinyl that we picked up that day to the person that dressed the most yachty or yachtily, whatever we called it. We would have this break in between our our set at the 10 high, and we would do two like hour and a half sets. Sometimes we would even do an encore and we would play there from like, I don't know, 10 to 130 in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Oh, yeah. I went to a couple of those.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

And it was, you know, it was like the crowd felt like they were in this this this new scene that it was like kind of like coming up to where the next week they would bring two, people would bring their friends and be like, You have you you have to see this. You can't believe what this thing is. And so that turned into a residency where for every Thursday we were there for four years straight. And while that time was cigarette-filled and probably not the healthiest thing for us, you know, we were probably uh uh over consuming, you know, bartenders and fans like just bringing trays of shots to the stage. What it did was it created what most bands would have to be together for 10 to 20 years. We in that very short amount of time were able to like click in a way where it felt like we could complete each other's sentences musically, or you know, we had a lot of banter. It was a lot definitely a lot more of a a comedy show than what it is now. Um, although I hear that they're getting ready to do a new take on on something that's going to be kind of more of a variety show combined with the music. Uh, I don't really know details, but you know, at that time there were there. You know, we were recording a lot of these shows, and you can go back and listen to it. There would be eight, nine minutes at a time where there was no music. We were literally just like riffing, you know, and and and people for the most part, the crowd was into it, and they were probably too drunk to care anyway. Yeah. But you know, out of that, out of those four years, we had a chemistry and a bond, and and musically, we grew uh, you know, so much that we were able to play more difficult songs that you know were played by really like top, top of the uh the business like session players, and and then go out and add those to our sets when we started playing Variety Playhouse. Um, because from Ten High, I think we did Andrews Upstairs, which was almost exclusively cover bands in Buckhead. We did that for maybe a year. That led to Park Tavern, and we started doing our series at Park Tavern. Um, and then that led to these yearly, you know, annual um things that we would do eventually. We did Tabernacle, um, and then we've done Chastane several times, and they I think they're still playing there, where we would have the original artists that were still alive and interested in doing it, would fly into Atlanta, we would do a rehearsal, and then we would go out to dinner, have like kind of like a pre-party, and then the next night we would play at Chastain with people like Robbie Dupree or Bill Champell from Chicago, and we had Denny Lane from the from Wings, um, who passed away a couple of years ago. I mean, we had like Jeff Carlisi from 38th Special. We've had the you know, the list goes on and on. There it was amazing the amount of people, you know, Ambrosia would open for us, and then we would have Little River first year we ever did it, Little River Band open for us, you know, and then they're looking out and they're going, What is this? What why is this popular again? Like they didn't see a second coming for their career. And guys like Player, you know, from Baby Come Back, they're still out now playing shows on their own. Like this, this whole trend that was coming up because of a little bit of tongue-in-cheek comedy, and then obviously the nostalgia and escapism. Escapism was was, I think, what fueled now. You can look uh any city I go to, I open up the you know, the creative loafing of their city, and you can look, and there's a yacht rock band performing nightly anywhere. I'm sure there are some in Michigan.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Um, yeah, there's one coming to a uh vineyard, which of course their shows are mostly tribute shows too. That they're coming there, and then there's another one that performs at the theater where I met my fiance over on the east side of Michigan. So I mean, they're everywhere, and it's weird because that show, especially, I walked in and it felt like, whoa, what happened? Did I just get like zoomed back in time in Atlanta in the me hands uh parking lot? Because everybody in this place had a captain's hat on, and I'm like, holy shit, this is bigger than what anybody could have ever expected it to be.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Um of us thought that we were gonna get past to us. This was this was for us. Yeah, we it selfishly, I was like, man, I have my entire life. There are these uh, you know, bucket list songs or or performances, I guess, by drummers like Jeff Picaro, or for and if for people that are not drummers, these are not necessarily household names um that you're gonna recognize, but you know, it's like when you list vocalists, it's very easy to say who are the most skilled, either either vocally, you know, vocal ability or songwriting ability. I mean, obviously, Carol King was a writer before she became a singer, and she wrote songs that Aretha just sang out of the park, but like if it wasn't a good song, it wouldn't have mattered to begin with. And and so these performances, drumming-wise, I'm like, I I get to perform this in front of a crowd. This is gonna be awesome. Didn't realize that eventually we were gonna sign to APA in Nashville, and they were gonna put us on tour to where we could go out and play, you know, three weeks in the on the West Coast, come home for a little bit, three weeks in the Midwest, come home for a little bit, three weeks on the East Coast, and just pinwheel around to where it was gonna become like a non-stop uh you know yearly tour. And that that was that was just like, and I'm sure with the Fleetwood Mac for you, you know, obviously the music sells itself. If you if you like Steely Dan and you want to see it performed live around a group of at that time when we were first starting, it was much younger. You look around now and it's become more like boomers. It's become people like more like my parents' parents' age, who are retiring and have expendable income to go see every and they don't just go see our yacht rock dan, which I know drives the guys crazy currently still, is that we really thought we would become, you know, the Beatles, where there's just one Beatles, like everybody realizes, okay, you can put on the wigs and you can pretend like you're you're doing these songs, but but really we know who the real Beatles are. There was not a yacht rock live band until we came along. There may have been there, there may have been other groups that were playing maybe some similar material, but it tended to lean more into I think like the folky side of things, or it would be more like what was called like the Breakfast Club, which they were dressing up in like, you know, the fast times at Richmond High Close, and they were doing more 80s. Yeah. But there wasn't that that niche of one hit wonder, like escape the Pina Colada song, you know, or doing things that were a little bit more kind of on the sappies thing, but leaning, really leaning into it and not making fun of it at all, like really selling it musically. So, and I think that's what helped was was that people who are skeptical that it was going to be a joke, they're like, Oh shit, these guys actually can play. And they're and they're really and they're really paying respect. And which is why I think we're able to to get these artists to come in and and perform with us and go, oh wow, these I'll play with you guys anytime you want. And then we started taking them out on tour. I mean, we got to we took Bobby Kimball, the lead singer of Toto out, uh, and and you know, that was its own, that's an entire podcast just talking about that guy and and his his whole experience and what that was like, you know, meeting him. But but all of that was just, I think, lightning in a bottle. And now there are three or four bands who were able to make a living doing this exclusively. The biggest one would be Yachtly Crew, um, who actually got Diane Warren to write a song for them that was, I think they it was on the ballot. I don't think it ended up, it didn't make it to the to the actual final ballot to be not, you know, to be able to nominate to win. But you know, they're they're Los Angeles based, so they have the access to all of the entertainment business out there to help them. But their whole approach is they were metal guys, and they're like, they play all of the songs as if they're Motley Crude. Like there's Pyro and they build ramps so they can like run up to the drum kit. And even their choreography feels very much like a poison video from you know from the late 80s. It's like it's very cheesy. Um, you know, it's very, but it's it's it's on intentionally supposed to, there's no subtlety to it. So they play a lot in Vegas because if you're just walking down the street and you just go, oh, this is a tribute to and the guys all wear matching outfits, they all dress like they're on the love boat. So there's no like, oh, there's you know, that they might be leaning into more disco, they might be doing some BGs. Everything is is turned up to 11, everything is loud and really, really on the nose. But they have a sax player, and the sax player runs around the feeder the entire time playing solos on a wireless pack and humps, humps like you know, MILFs that are in the audience, and he's like jumping on the on the chairs, and you know, like and the way that they the way that they do it, I know was like a total opposite to what we were trying to do, which was play these songs with authenticity and and love. And I think that they're doing it in a way that just hit you over the head with it, and they pack out places. They they don't come to Atlanta because they know that they can't shit where they eat, I guess, or whatever the opposite of that is. But they're not, you know, they're not trying to mess with our market. But otherwise, they're playing, they've already been to Australia. I think they're doing some Europe's dates, which is, you know, we have pretty much just the review is pretty much just played continental United States.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

So, you know, but I I think that it's expensive to mount something like that. And I think that they have some promoters and they do a lot of stuff on the side to be able to make that work. But you know, it's just it's crazy. It's now Yacht Rock is a household name now. For the longest time, you had to describe what the genre meant and who the artists were and why it worked the way it worked. But now you just say Yacht Rock and people go, Oh, because there's a serious XM station.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Yeah, I was just about to say, we listen to that station all the time. There's playlists on Apple. It's great, it gets repetitive, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Yeah, you're right. You can go to iTunes or you can go to Apple Music and type in Yacht Rock, and there is a curated playlist.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Same with Spotify. You know, I mean, there's it's there are DJs who are doing like Yacht Rock nights here in Atlanta, just random bars on nights, and people they don't necessarily even know maybe about the fact that there are so many bands doing it. They're just like, oh, it's it's gonna be this kind of vibe. I can dress up and I can dance to it, and I can bring my parents. You know, I mean, there is a lot of that sort of shared experience where like everybody is met in the middle between experiencing it when it actually first came out and then experiencing the wave of of what it's become, no pun intended, but now. Um, and then you know, there's like some in pop culture, it's all over the place. I mean, movies, look at the Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack. Yeah, it's almost all that same music, and so it's in a lot of the Marvel movies in general, and then like the documentary now, which is Fred Armison and Bill Hader, those guys from SNL started this series uh where they had these famous documentaries that they would make. They would kind of like do a version of it, like a like a like a mock memory, sort of like Waiting for Guffman, the Christopher Guest movies. They did one called Blue Jean Committee.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

So good.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

And it was it was there, yeah, it's amazing. And so finally, these artists like Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins, who were like, What? We never owned a yacht. We don't we don't we don't play music on yachts. We we wanted to tour and be Led Zeppelin. We wanted to be rock and roll like everybody else. That just happened to be our sound. Like now they're in on the joke and they're absolutely like, oh, what can I do to help? I'll I'll be in an I'll be interviewed about this fake genre, and and like everybody's on board with it. I mean, Toto's out on tour and Christopher Cross is opening up.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

And you know, it's just like it's so weird the way that this has all come full circle now. And um, it was so cool just to like have this idea that grew into something, and then the timing was just right to be able to stay on top as long as you know you you play your cards right and you don't piss anybody off, you're going to continue to get gigs, yeah, you know, and call and call kind of call your own shots. Um so it's it's yeah, it's it's crazy. And I mean, obviously you're not performing anymore with rumors, and I'm sure that's difficult for you to see them still continuing on, but you also take pride in the fact that you created something that was able to be such a huge success.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Yeah, exactly. And you know, you talked about other bands doing it. There were several other Fleetwood Mac tribute bands that were already out there, but the intention when, you know, I started the band was never even about becoming big or competing with them. It was like, I just want to play these songs because I love them. And then it blew up and it was like, oh shit, all right, well, like now we got to compete with these people who, like you said, like LA, they had backing and all of that too. And then, you know, you've got literal people coming up to you at shows going, we started a Fleetwood Mac tribute band because of y'all. And it's like, wait, what? And I bought this shawl that's the exact same shawl that you wear on stage, and it's that is the craziest thing to me. And it's funny because I've actually become friends with another Fleetwood Mac tribute band, and you know, they're super good people, and you know, it's it you once you actually are forced to kind of take a step back from it all, you kind of stop feeling that like competitive nature and that like possessiveness because I was really possessive over the Fleetwood Mac thing. I was very possessive over my role um doing Stevie because I took a lot of pride in it. And so yeah, on the one hand, I'm like really happy that they're continuing because I'm like, I did that, like I did that. And then on the other hand, it's like I really like for it to continue happening, but there to not be all of this animosity just because somebody quit. Like it didn't have to be that way, you know what I mean? But yeah, that's a whole other story too, which I obviously got into with the whole season one, but I just wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yeah, so this season is gonna be more you interviewing. Um, I'm I scanned through a a bunch of the first uh season, and that's just your you know, you're breaking down the process of you know, beginning to to the end of uh your involvement. So I'm assuming now with the second season, it's gonna be a lot of other people. I think you mentioned a few people and they were all great. Yeah, some really great.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

And then like kind of faded into obscurity, started producing bands, and then ended up becoming really big again in a regional area, or like in a very like almost quiet room kind of thing. Like, I know as a fan of his and as and other fans of his, like we kind of keep him to ourselves. It's like we don't want him to get huge because we we want that for ourselves. Being able to go see him play at a venue in Nashville for the 20-year anniversary of Letters when there's only 300 people admitted to the room is like that's a really powerful experience. And so being able to talk to him about like no pun intended, because he has an album called The Rise and Fall of Butchwalker and the Let's Go Out Tonights, but it's like following that rise and fall, talking to people like Kevin Kinney about, you know, you're a singer-songwriter and you faced a lot of hardships and what is that like? And talking to people like Valor Trucks, who he's continuing on the Allman Brothers legacy, and because his dad was butch trucks, and yeah, it's incredible. It's just super cool to be able to talk to some of these people because a lot of us have the same kind of story. And I also feel like if you're a want if you want to be a musician or if you're a young person cracking into this industry for the first time, it's like you can learn a lot from your elders. And and as much as people want to write off, you know, the old man bands or whatever, it's like you can really learn a lot from these people because it's like what Alex Lifeson said when I sat down with him, that interview was so eye-opening because he was like, I don't have advice for young people because I don't know how this industry works anymore. I can give you advice from like if you're starting in a garage with your best friends and you know, this is 1974, I got all the advice in the world for you. But now he's like, I don't know how TikTok works. And this algorithm thing, I don't know. Like, you've got to buy ads in order for people to even see your band scroll across their social media. He's like, I don't know how people do it nowadays. And he totally gets the tribute band idea because he's like, Well, I mean, it's really the only way anybody's making any damn money because all these venues take a merch percentage, and you know, you've got booking agents and management that are taking a huge chunk of your money, and then let's not even get into how expensive food on the road is and now gas. And oh man, you know, it's ridiculous. So he's like, I don't have any advice, I really don't. And I'm like, okay, I kind of like that answer, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

But I'm curious, you know, as far as having to to you know play in a tribute in order to make a living, is it is it more that the bands are seeing that by providing these tributes, creating them, or just at least joining forces with other musicians who've already been doing it. Um, because at this point, the Eagles are basically uh, you know, an Eagles tribute band. Yeah, like there's hardly anybody left in that band, uh, either fading away, you know, like with one by one you might have one or two. I mean, look at the dead. I mean, it's it's like pretty much John Mayer's thing now, and everybody else has either quit playing or died. And um, Skinner, you know, they finally just couldn't even go out because there's no one to to carry the the you know the torch for all of the guys. I mean, at least with with Almond Brothers, you have some, you know, legacy. You have some, you know, people that are part of the family that have grown up either playing it or at least being very like firsthand nature to all of that that can carry on the name. But you know, I think when you start these tributes, what we're also doing is we're giving fans there's no there's no there's nothing to challenge them to want to go hear a live band and support someone when they don't know the songs right out of the gate. So it's like you're an original band and and you really want to like you want to fight that battle and you want to go out there and try to make new fans, and then you look and what's there the next night, a tribute to somebody who's all hits. And so the crowd's gonna go out and know every single song. I just I don't know which at what point I think part of it is the the the playlist culture that we're in now, which is whether Spotify makes you your own playlist or you make yourself your own playlist. We've gotten to the point where very rarely do we listen to an album where we drop the needle on track one and we don't touch it until the record is done, where we listen to an entire record. Now, I'm like, yeah, you can do that with rumors, but like are people doing that? Are they going and buying brand new records by people that maybe they only know one or two songs and they're giving it all a chance? Because now we can just skip, skip to the next thing, skip to the next thing. And I really do think that outside of the yacht rock nostalgia and other things we talked about earlier, I think that the fact that it's one song by one artist, and then if you don't care about the Eagles, then the very next song, you're gonna, it's gonna be a completely different artist. So it it's that ADHD brain that we seem to be hardwired into now as both adults and you know kids who are now all medicated for it. But you know, we just we want we want the next thing really quick. We don't want to invest in something over a long amount of time. We want to be spoon-fed things that like that dopamine, we need that right away. And I think that that playlist kind of artist does really well, almost like the way that a DJ works, which is just constantly changing it up so that you have this, these, these varying emotions. And it's not just like, I mean, I I went and saw Roger Waters, it was incredible, but even half of his show, he's playing new material and it's very political, and he's not afraid to like piss people off. And I saw people leaving because they're like, man, just play that early floor stuff, right? You know, in Atlanta, and he's dropping these like anti, you know, Trump and all this stuff, like he's flying these pigs around and they're yeah, his confetti's dropping down, and the images on the screen are all this like crazy propaganda stuff. He doesn't care because he knows he's already got people in the door. They're gonna they're gonna stick around to see at least when he plays some stuff from the wall, which also was you know political and and had to do a lot with that. But you know, I do think that even the the artists these days who are you know have been around for a long time, they still have to play like Zach Brown still has to play chicken fried every night. And I know for a fact those guys don't want to play that song anymore. But man, like you're not gonna like it's contractually obligated that you play that or people will buy it. So I you know, I just think you, you know, you you're you're you're you're right. Like the the idea of trying to mount a tour and and pay all of the prices that go along with just as soon as you you pull out of the parking lot, you're spending money. Um so so to make anything, you've gotta you've gotta be able to kind of sell your soul a little bit and just be okay with the fact that whatever the gimmick is that got you there, you you can't stray too far from it um without repercussions.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, um you have to lean in for sure. And you've been, you know, because of Yacht Rock Review being such a long-running band, what do you think it really takes to keep a band together for that many years?

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Well, you know, I do think there has to be a quarterback, you know, there has to be somebody that everybody listens to and respects, not just listens to, but you know, the respect part of it is a is a huge thing. Um I look at you know, I don't want to get too far into it because I know they're still playing shows together. They they this was after I left the group, they they did a tour opening for a train, um, which is crazy because train's in a Original band.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

But but then I remember the first train cruise we did. I think I did five just alone. And then I think they've done COVID really put a stop to a lot of the the cruise, the music cruises uh for a while there. But but I think they've done one since. And then there's another one coming up. I think pretty soon where they're they're going out again, opening for them. Um and it's always a uh some of the similar bands, like like Ziggy Marley, not Ziggy, but like like who's left of the Marleys, uh that played the the the Wailers that played with him, you know, they they're usually on there. Then they get like, you know, who's the uh who's the singer that did fight song?

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Um Rachel uh Rachel something, I can't remember her.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Right. Like there's there, there's always a few of those artists who have like, you know, like one or two, you know, kind of uh you know, hits that have have enough enough to like you know fill a theater up on some of the nights on the off nights of the cruises. And you know, it's it's a cool bonding experience. All these musicians getting to play together and having like late night jam sessions. But you know, with train, I remember seeing like they at least had their original guitarist and their original drummer, and probably I can't remember about the bass player, I know Johnny Colt and Brandon Bush, you know, who was in Sugarland, his brother Christian Bush, uh, is the singer. Those guys were in the rhythm section for a while for train, and they've used varying musicians over the years, but they're at the point now where there is only Pat. Pat is in Pat is trained. There are no no one else that played on any of those records is currently in the band. So, in order to for that band to stay together, whatever Pat says is what goes. Like you're not gonna come in there and go, Well, what if we did this or that, or you know, have this idea that it's gonna maybe unless he's on board with it, it's not happening. So I think you know, when you have an obvious front man, it's a little bit easier. The thing with Ya Rock was for the longest time, we had just a bunch of guest singers, and it was more of a rotating kind of concept where we had a lot of different people that would come up, not karaoke, but just it wasn't defined where everybody had a set role, um, besides the rhythm section. And so over time, once it became known that we weren't gonna do any other projects, really, we were mostly gonna put all of our eggs in the basket of just doing these yacht rock shows. You know, there has to be somebody who becomes the face of the group or becomes the, you know, the person that's going to really have to make the final call of what the set list is gonna be. And there were always arguments about, no, I think we should do a little bit more, like lean into some of the stuff that's that's a little more like on the earlier 70s as opposed to the early 80s, because the the older guys in the group did not want to play songs by Wham. You know, it was like, do we really have to do Wake Me Up Before You Go Go? And it's like, if it goes over with the crowd, we're gonna keep doing it, you know, like we at the end of the day, it's fan service, and that's what's exactly you know, gonna pay the bills. And it's like, yeah, but we created this concept, so can't we decide what that concept is? And there were there were a lot of like creative uh arguments, I think, and not like you know, tooth and nail, like people were getting angry. It was just, I think different, you know, musicians have a different sweet spot for what they what they what they think they sound good playing. And sometimes when you force someone to play something that's not in their comfort zone, you can tell, at least on stage musically, there were things that we did that sounded great right out of the gate, and other things that felt like a little bit of a like like forced. And I think that you know, at the end of the day, somebody has to make that call and say, You're right, let's not do that, let's cut that from the list. Or, hey, I'm sorry, this just has to stay, it's too big of a hit. Like we can never not play Africa, you know, or what a four believes. You can sub out some other songs by the same, like you could do Rosanna instead. But when you see the reaction to a song and it's always, you know, the peak moment of the show, it's really hard not to do that every night. Um, and so I think that to keep a band together, you have to sort of pick and choose your battles and go, whatever. Like maybe if I keep asking to do this one song and it goes over well one night, that song can become something that we can play. Because playing the same show without any changes, night after night after night, is is really difficult for the for the creative-minded musician. If you're just a robot and you don't care, then you can just turn turn off that part of your brain and just play a set. You know, I I guess there's there's never going to be friction. But I know for me, I really enjoyed the challenge of adding a couple new things and switching up the order. And because it's a concept and it's not a greatest hits that we have to just play that same thing every night. Um, you know, I think I always felt like, why are we, why are we not changing things just to keep ourselves entertained? And I think that they they still do that, and that that is one of the success, that is part of the success of how the guys have been able to um, well, and I guess I don't want to say just guys because we added uh Keisha and Courtney Jackson, a mother and daughter, and then um Keisha had some health problems, so she's no longer touring, so it's just Courtney. But I think also that's another thing is like having that female voice gives you an entire new group of songs to choose from. Yeah. Um, you know, that like because it's not just the male-dominated, you know, macho thing. When we first started, we were using Anchorman as kind of a reference. Like, there's no ladies in journalism. It's locker room humor, you know. But I think that started getting a little less cute on like big corporate shows where we were like, okay, let's maybe not not work blue and use, you know, some of the terms and language. Let's clean it up and and and try to like uh work be a little more highbrow. So I think, you know, like making changes and not being afraid to adapt and and realize like what the difference is between playing for 300 people versus 3,000 versus 30,000, you know, when you're playing festivals, you know, it can't be the same show. It's not always going to go over. And and so I think that the success of being able to adapt or die, like it's unfortunately one of those things that you can't say, well, I remember when we first started and it was like this, and I just want it to be like that again. It's like, well, we're but we're not, and time has changed and we have moved forward, and society has moved forward, and the kinds of fans that we have, and the age, the demographic, a lot of that has all changed. And you have to be able to kind of recognize that and and cater to that. And I think that the guys that are leading the band have done a really good job of being able to like work through adversity and work through some of those changes. And and you know, I don't I can't really speak for them for the other other members, but I know there's times where they're like rolling their eyes and they're they're probably like, uh, I don't want to have to, you know, put on my bell bottoms and polyester and you know, and and and do Baker Street again tonight, you know. But then you get on stage and you play it and the crowd goes nuts, and then you're on to the next city, and it's just it's just a fleeting moment. And it at the end of the day, you made you made the night because you played some of the songs that you played. Um, but you know, I think it's a it's a large band, you know. I know your band was what six or what do you have?

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Six of us, yeah. And then every now and then we'd have Jordan Shallop on sacks, just not that there's sacks on any Fleawood Max songs, because there's not, but it was always fun to have him with us, and then people would freak out, you know, like we would have him on Tusk and Don't Stop, and people would lose their minds, and so it's like, okay, that definitely makes sense to do that every now and then.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

I was wondering because that was another project that you know he contacted me. Oh, I don't know, I think it was last beginning of last summer, about working with a new project that he had. I won't go into detail about it. I mean, they're still playing, it's just a different uh concept than what he originally pitched to me. But um I had known him over the years, and you know, this is a whole another conversation, but Yacht Rock Review spawned a uh a secondary band to play to cover for gigs when we were out of town or to play smaller markets um that was called the Yacht Rock Schooner. And so he is still in that group. And the the one of the drummers that you know replaced me was was you know my sub over the years when I needed somebody to cover for me if I had family stuff going on or whatever. And he is like really kind of the lead singer in that yacht rock schooner. So Jordan, I've you know played with him more often than I ever have since leaving the review. And I started seeing all these photos on social media of him in this new rumors video shoot. And I was like, Sax in in Fleawood Mac? That's I mean, I could hear it on Tusk. And then I remember when the Clintons, when Bill Clinton won, they had their their campaign song, their like victory songs don't stop. Yep, and he played saxophone, obviously. He'd go on our Cenio Hall and play. And I was like, Oh, is it a throwback to that? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

Okay, okay. I am so glad that you picked up on that because that is precisely the reason why Alex and I were so into the idea of having Jordan, because when the ban blew up, when rumors really started blowing up, it was right around the time when Trump was quote unquote winning in his first term. And we were like, how do we make this political without being overtly political? And so we were like, dude, we do don't stop. What if we have like sax on it every now and then? And Jordan can play because we love Jordan. And so we're like, that would be hilarious, and we won't mention anything. And every now and then we'd go out to the merch table and somebody would be like, I loved that Bill Clinton nod, by the way. I'm like, you get it, yes, yes, you get it.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Yeah, you you have no idea how much of a struggle that part of it is because, and again, uh, I don't need to, I'm not gonna throw out specific examples, but you know, it's really difficult when politically you can't be like Bruce Springsteen, where you're every night going out and over the microphone just blasting, you know, Trump and MAGA and all of this stuff, and he's just not afraid to speak his mind, knowing that he's gonna get backlash, not necessarily from fans, but certainly, you know, you'll probably turn some people off and you're gonna you're gonna catch the you know, I guess, throw uh blowback from if Trump gets word of it. And but who who cares, you know, like I think that Eddie Vetter is one of those guys that's very outspoken. You know, there are certainly people who aren't going to let that affect you know, that's like the shut up and play kind of mentality, right? It's like just play your songs, we don't care. Um but we have a responsibility to to to speak up when we feel like there's if we have a an outlet for that and we have a a crowd that's willing to you know listen, how is it any different than what Kid Rock is doing? Right, you know, or country fans are doing for the opposite. So like that to me, that hypocrisy is crazy. But the difference with Yacht Rock was we were all, you know, I for the most part, I won't go into detail, but like, you know, we're we're artists, we're sensitive, we're liberal. We we are we are we are not like oh you know, stay in your lane and you know, the just getting into the the typical you know things that liberals versus conservatives, you know, agree or disagree on. We couldn't talk about any of that because a large part of our crowd were conservative. When we went when we played in New York, it was a lot of frat boys who were chanting USA in between songs. We're like, what does that have to do with anything we're musically we're doing? We would finish playing like Steelaway and Robbie Dupree's like walking off stage, and they're like, you uh, it's just like there was a very, very like this, this, this, this sweat, the sweater tied around the shoulder with the like penny loafers and the pop collars, and and we're like, oh, that's a fun costume. It's like, no, they wear that everywhere they go. Like this, yeah, we can't we can't shoot ourselves in the foot and and and this this has to be one. I was like, well, what if we're what if we're in a time machine? What if we pretend like we're in the 70s and we use like Nixon or we use Carter as you know, certain uh you know, references, and we don't and we don't say anything about modern politics because we're anchor man, we're in a time machine. We are in we are these people, and for a while we were kind of doing that with the humor, but we net we never got into the politics about it. So anytime we would try to do something somewhat vague, I would wait for the end of the night, and maybe, maybe one person would catch something, and everyone else, it was just right over their head. And it's like, okay, we gotta just find other outlets for that. In fact, in fact, I don't even care at this point. Uh, we played the Republican National Convention with this is before Yacht Rock. It was actually, actually, it was the beginning of Yacht Rock, and we had Schooner play the 10 high because every Thursday we had to have uh a Yacht Rock night. So Schooner covered for us, and we went to the uh the Minneapolis Republican convention because Sonny Purdue had found out like he wanted a band to play, and he wanted us to play like Georgia on my mind so he could slow dance with his wife. They had these ice luge sculptures so they could do shots from the trunk of the elephant. Oh my god. And they had this massive spread. And we we stayed at this really nice, like Ritz-Carlton, like downtown, and played the convention, and we said nothing. We kept to our best behavior. In fact, we weren't even playing as yacht rock, we were playing as this band called the Tupperware Party, which was ours, just sort of like you know, typical top 40. We played just a bunch of just random classic rock and you know, a couple newer things, and we wore suits and we we watched him dance to Georgia My Mind, and then we went to the bar, got wasted, got up the next morning, flew back, and we took that money that we got paid for that, and we donated it to the Democratic Party of Georgia.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

So it was like, it was like just like we didn't make a social media post about it, but it was like, fuck you. Like, yeah, you know, we made sure that we we we got like our, you know, it's not like every one of us donated, we still needed to pay the bills, but but they we we were like, let's just let's just give them some crazy ridiculous price, and we just took a bunch of that money that we made and like just gave it right back, just yeah, just so we could sleep at night because we didn't want it. We didn't we we didn't want that money going towards you know the potential re-election of people that we completely did not see eye to eye with, somebody like Kent now. Ugh, but uh yeah, yeah. So that's that is a that's a that's a conversation I wasn't expecting to have. But like the the idea of you if you're a tribute band, you you're not really given a voice to be your own original self because you've already sold that. You've already said too late, we are this, we are representing this other thing. So that would be crazy to me, like if you started a you know a Dixie Chicks tribute, which is now are just the chicks, but you're a Republican because clearly they are not, right? Like that's kind of what was the final nail in the coffin when they when they started talking speaking out about Bush. It's like no. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

It's his fault. He started this whole like witch hunt against them. They said that in England, and like nobody would have said a thing about it had Toby Keith not heard about it, and then he was like, Well, I'm the boot in your ass, that's the American Way guy. Like, you're not gonna talk shit about my president. And it's like, I really think that's where a lot of this division kind of started was like when you had the chicks speaking out, and then you had this man in the industry who was a conservative that was like, Nope, I'm gonna do what men in this industry do, and I'm gonna not only shut you up, but shut you down. And it's taken them a really long time to claw their way out of that. You know, it's it's interesting because like with the political thing, you know, we had the Stevie Nicks for president shirts. We did it in 2016, we did it in 2020, we did it in 2024, and then um we did back when uh the MAGA stuff, people were wearing the hats and the shirts and all that. We made a shirt with the same font that said make tribute bands great again. And there were people who were furious about that shirt, and then there were people who were like, I want that fucking shirt in every size. And we're like, There you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

So it worked out.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

Sometimes you gotta just you gotta just lean into something because if you're at all, if you're at all like, well, what do you what do you what do you think? I mean, or like, you know, oh here, here you go, and I'm sorry if you don't like, you know, you you you have to just take what comes with it. I mean, yeah, that's easy, that's easy to say from the outside, you know. If you're actually, you know, the one crunching the numbers and you're trying to realize, oh yeah, what are gas prices? Are we gonna be able to go out on tour this year? Because that I think happened in 2000, was it like 12 or something? There was a year where it shut down like a bunch of big tours. In fact, I think it might have been the Dixie Chicks at the time. There were a lot of people who were taking out, you know, four trailers to set up an entire huge stadium tour. And and when gas prices went through the roof, it's like it does, we're not gonna make money. Like this is absolutely uh you know irresponsible too. Um, so you know, like I don't know, when when you have all of these considerations for hotel, food, all of that stuff, and what are you gonna do? You're gonna create a new piece of controversial merch or you're gonna go out and start a Twitter page or X or whatever and start like blasting your opinions out there, it it can it can go out of control, I think, pretty pretty quickly. You really have to sort of like sometimes just keep your head down, put blinders on, and realize you're just there to entertain. And I hate that. And if you don't like like it, then that's when it's time to pick something else to do for a career, I guess. And I think that that kind of comes down to where you know, when do you when do you know you're done with something? You know, like there it's not always just this I hate this person, see ya, like I can't work with this person anymore, bye bye. Yeah, because it's very easy uh to to to try to just lump all these things together when somebody leaves a group. And it can it can honestly be so complicated that you don't even want to describe all of the things that happened. And you know, it's easier, and I know you and I have talked about this, you know, when somebody says, Well, it was great working with you, and you know, maybe we'll work with you again, and then you're like, No, I'm not, you know, you you're not you're not representing my opinion. So just be very blunt and just say what you need to say so that the fans aren't confused. Because I still get fans reaching out to me, messaging me, liking posts of my kids, you know, who are still from that original group of of fans that I think are like, oh, you'll you'll play with them again. And I don't know. I it it's we're in such a weird period of time right now where uh you know not everybody knows how to talk to each other. Yeah, um, I think it's easier just to be like, you don't exist. I just need to go through my life and I need to like move forward and I don't need to feel uncomfortable or dig up any old feelings.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

Cut off culture is big right now. Like I hate it. I I hate it too, you know, because like look, going back to the political stuff, I've got people in my family that we do not have the same political opinions at all. And I have been honest and said, look, it bothers me that you're gonna vote for somebody who wants to take away every right that I have, every right that my daughter has. And, you know, not only that, but you're gonna get screwed in the process too. And some of them have been like, it's okay, we can agree to disagree. We don't see eye to eye on this. I still love you. And then I've had a couple people in my family and and friends group that are like, you're turning your back on. I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm expressing my opinion, and you are choosing a 79-year-old draft dodging, pants shitting asshole over someone in your own friend or family group. Like, that's on you, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

But yeah, this is not this is not uncommon. I mean, it's it's everybody everybody that I know, especially living in the South, you know. Um, but then again, what I didn't realize growing up, growing up in Indiana, you know, just as big of a red state as Georgia. But well, now it's kind of giving a run for its money because we at least elected Osoff and um and and were able to um, you know, turn the tide there with and the county I lived in was the was the was the linchpin that ended up getting it to happen. Um, you know, and and so being able to live here and be like, wow, I can't believe that they've never done this before. And a lot of it's that Atlanta has become more of a melting pot. We've had people moving in here from Fortune 500 companies from California who are leaving because of all the disaster going on, with, you know, well, I mean, there's a lot outside of just the global warming aspect of wildfires and flooding and mudslides and all this stuff, but like the movie industry coming here, you know, we're seeing a new, more liberal group of, you know, citizens. Who were taken over. And I love that. Indianapolis doesn't have that same capability to do what Atlanta does in the in the state because surrounding areas are all going to go red. And the same thing with in Georgia. When I saw Robin Williams before he died, I got to see him at The Fox. And I had never seen him before, but my dad had all of his records. And I remember growing up on his stand-up and then obviously all the movies, he described Atlanta as a uh an island of Bubba or no, a liberal island in a sea of Bubba.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

And it's it got a laugh, but on either side of me, there were some people who were there because, you know, he was Mrs. Doubtfire or whatever. You know, it's like, just tell your jokes, and like, you know, but you know, he was like driving around, like, how many peach trees are there here? And it's like he had really paid attention to where he was and what his demographic was, and didn't care he was going to tell the jokes he wanted to tell. But it definitely feels like since the the Trump, the first, you know, administration, and then having him be re-elected again, and all the nonsense about like, well, let's find the votes. He still recently tried to come back after, you know, Georgia voting systems. And it's like having having living here and being around it, and then still having relatives that live other parts of the country, I've never seen a more divisive time for people just saying, we can't have a healthy discourse about this. Like, like let's just discuss why exactly you feel like we're okay with our current administration versus, you know, if I had voted for Trump for some reason, right, but by by now I would have finally said, okay, it's gone too far. I don't know what I was thinking. I listened to the wrong people. You know, I'm not saying that the the left is perfect in in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:45

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

I I agree with a certain amount of libertarian. Um, I probably just butchered that, but uh, you know, the the idea that like we have to choose sides is really, really difficult because every once in a while we've had some people that have run as independents who are very intelligent. We've had some Green Party candidates that I I'm like, you know, I can really agree with you. I think, you know, Bernie has got a lot of really great ideas, but I'd never see someone like him ever being able to win in this country because we have to be so black or white. It is so left or right. There's no no middle direction to anything. It has to, you have to define yourself. It's why I think women are gonna have such a tough time. I don't know if we'll ever see someone of color ever be able to run again. I mean, it's like so disheartening because Obama was so such a positive light uh that we needed. And I remember thinking things were finally gonna change and we'll never go backwards again. And of course, it's been worse than ever.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

So, you know, I don't know, like because of the one person that's still causing all the problems, too. By the way, I was talking to my fiance about this yesterday. It's like there's people that I've heard that be like, we've never been more divided as a country. I'm like, okay, who sowed the seeds of the division? Well, it was Obama. No, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:01

No, I don't know I can't with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:03

Yeah. I'm like, nope, it was your guy who created the whole like birth truther thing and all that bullshit. Like, that it wouldn't have ever been an issue. Yeah, people are racist. People have problems with other people. That's never gonna go away. It is what it is. But the whole like stoking the fire and using your celebrity to um create that division, like he I think he's an idiot, but he definitely knew what he was doing. And we could talk politics all day long. Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:32

Yeah, no, I know I know people who've I know people who have left, like disowned their family, like even like to the point of almost like getting a conservatorship. You just like, I you know what? I don't even want to have your name anymore. I'm gonna legally try to remove myself from being. I mean, I've listened to NPR in the mornings where they're like, there are people who are so, so threatened and disheartened by the rhetoric that they've had to listen to from family members that they're just like, you know, I can't even be associated with you anymore. Uh, I'm gonna like just completely uh disown you altogether because I can't talk to you. And luckily, I don't I've got family members who are very, very much probably still that live in, you know, uh smaller parts of of of Indiana that, you know, I I I don't even want to, I don't even bring it up. I because I already know I'm gonna get upset when I hear some of their opinions. So I just don't talk about it. But but that's not even better, it's not, it's like sweeping under the rug creates this like boiling, it's like one day it's when it does come up, it's gonna get ugly. And I wish that I could just say, hey, let's just have a conversation. I'll hear you out, and maybe you can hear me out. But I know it's not gonna go well because anyone that's still ride or die with him, it's it's it's uh yeah, that's not that's not somebody that I know I'm gonna be able to win. Not that you have to win a conversation, but certainly be able to feel like you walked away from it, just maybe like convincing somebody.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:57

Oh, to someone, even yeah, just like even just scratching the surface of it for sure. I mean, I've I've been there and I feel like sometimes with the stuff that I post on Instagram, I feel like I'm just like screaming into the abyss. But it's like, you know what? It makes me feel better to scream it into the abyss. That's why like I have my angry moments and I let it out, and then I go outside in my yard and I mess around with my flowers and my seedlings, and you know, I'm building a rain garden and I'm like, okay, I got angry about the thing. Now I'm gonna be productive and not worry about the other things, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:32

My dad always said, uh, you know, like get only get only get upset or frustrated with the things that you can control. So like traffic, I find myself screaming at people who I don't know, like who cut me off, you know, or I'm just trying, I have a five-minute drive to work and I've been in my car for 15 minutes because I can't get around someone and they are they're like an Uber driver or they're and they're looking at their phone and they're lost or whatever. Yeah, and I'm like saying words that I have, you know, never combinations of curse words I've never said out loud before, and I don't know who this person is. And why am I mad? Because nothing that my anger is not going to change that situation, and so do something that you can do that you can't control, like gardening. Like I planted something and now I'm watching it grow, like with kids, right? I have this child and I get to choose the things that I want to be able to make this person's life better, and now I get to see them thrive, and that I can control. What I can't control is the weather, you know. Like I go outside, I'm like, God, like again, you know, like okay, I can only get angry about it for so long, and then what is it gonna? Oh, I'm sorry, you don't like this. Let me let me change it for you, you know. So that's very much politics, right? I mean, you can vote and you can express your opinion, and you can even go on the No Kings protest, which I think I saw. Did you do that recently?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:55

Yeah, I did in this tiny little town that I live in.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:59

You gotta do it though. They they they're they're no they're taking notice, you know. It makes that you see these these photos and videos from around the country, and it's like, I've never seen anything like this in our lifetime.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:08

It's historical, it's amazing. Being a part of it felt really good, and it was cool because I've literally stood next to two ladies who were born during World War II and have seen so much, and the the things that they were telling me and the lessons that they've learned, and and one of them was like, yeah, I was part of um the the civil rights march uh to Washington, D.C. And yeah, I marched in the bra-burning era and all that, and I'm like, damn, that's so cool, you know? And so I want my kids to grow up knowing that like I all I ever wanted to do was protect my neighbors and protect myself as a woman, protect my children and the earth and like keep our community safe and and good, because at the at the root of it, humanity is good. And I think that people like, and we were talking about escapism with music. I think people like escapism with TV and all that, like true crime and stuff and podcasts listening to stuff like that. But then when it's like part of your reality, where literally every day my phone, the Apple News thing will buzz, and it's like, oh fuck, what what happened today? You know what I mean? Yeah, we're not supposed to live like that. And so I'm trying everything I can, especially not being on the road. Like I have to find ways to keep myself busy. And so I'm doing everything I can to be like, okay, is it a decent enough day? Let's walk down to the lake shore and go on a two-mile walk. Um, okay, the it's raining and shitty today. I'm gonna go write a couple chapters in my book. Or, you know, you have to find other things to do so that you don't get so consumed in it. And, you know, a lot of the other partial reason why I initially was quitting the band is because of political stuff, is because of the unease that I was feeling as a woman being on stage, because there were times when I was unafraid and we'd be playing in Tennessee, and I would dedicate Gold Dust Woman to like Marsha Blackburn and be like, this is what real women are, you know, and like there would be people in the audience who'd be furious with me, and then there'd be other people who would come up and be like, that was so badass that as a woman you got up there and you pretty much said fuck you to her, and that was so cool. And I'm like, All right, cool, you know, but now that I'm not doing that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:42

Less important to whether the crowd receives it or not is do you have the support of band members? Because if somebody in the band says, Hey, that wasn't cool, now you have a different, you have a different problem, right? Because you can be unified in that way, and then whatever ends up happening with your crowd, the people that were supportive of you, they're gonna can continue to come back, obviously regardless. But the people that don't, are those really the people that you know are going to, I don't know. This is it's it's a that's a that's a very uh that's a it's a very touchy subject. It really is because I've heard the country, the country side of things, when you play in in markets that are like you're walking into them knowing what your fan base is going to be like, you have to make the choice of what how how do you think this is gonna go over? And I saw David Cross, he was doing a like, I mean, no more is this important than in in stand-up comedy because it's just you with a microphone, it's just your thoughts. There is no there's no one else there to hide behind. There's no there's no song, there's no band members, there's like it is you and your opinions. And jokes are one of those things where it's like you could say, Oh, I didn't mean that, I was joking. Doesn't matter, like you you pick a fight with the wrong person in the crowd, they follow you out into the parking lot, you know, like that's yeah, exactly. It's terrifying terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:04

I mean, there were there was a moment in 2016 where um I had posted something on Facebook, and this was back before, you know, I knew that I could make everything private and friends only and all that. And this guy saw it and he was like, You better watch your mouth. Like, I'm gonna show up to one of your shows and and put your ass in the ground. You need to shut the fuck up and all this stuff. And I was like, holy shit. And that's when it really got real to me. And I was like, all right, man, like I don't need to be having to tell venues, like, hey, I popped off about you know women's reproductive rights, and this guy wants to kill me for it now. So here's his picture, make sure he doesn't come in. Like that just started becoming like really scary. And I, you know, the very last show that I ever played with the band, I had a stalker for a little while, and he never did anything like violent or scary, but he would message me all the time to be like, Why can't we be friends on Facebook? And why won't you follow me back on Instagram? And he'd find out where we were staying somehow and like get a room at that hotel, and I'd see him, and I'm like, oh my god. And that night on February 29th, I think it was, um, because it was a no leap year? It was a leap year, yeah. Um, no, it wasn't. Never mind. It was February 28th. Um, we had played in Kentucky at this casino, and there was a hotel connected to the casino. And after the gig, I, you know, I was pregnant, so I went into the bar and I got two Heineken double zeros. And I was like, I just want to like calm down from the high of that show. Like, it was exciting, it was so much fun. And I'm getting on the elevator, and this guy's like, hold the elevator door, blah, blah, blah. And he gets in, and it it was him. And I was like, no shit, I'm by myself. Like, this is so scary. And I brought it up to the band, and like they just didn't really feel like the same sense of urgency that I did. And so, after obviously a culmination of other things that happened, I was like, you know what, man? Like, I don't feel supported here, and I don't feel safe anymore. So, like, I gotta fucking go because I was always gonna go it by July anyway, but this was way earlier, and I just felt unsafe. And I'm like, I can't be a target for people's aggression or obsession or whatever it is. Like, I can't do that anymore. Like, I'm someone's mom and I'm about to be someone else's mom. Like, I gotta, I gotta take a step back from this. And that was the biggest, honestly, the biggest reason why I wanted to take a step back from touring in the first place. And then there were just some uh personal things that did not have to happen in my last six months of being in the band that happened, and I was like, fuck it, I'm not doing this anymore. But I want to do something fun with you because I have a kid that I have to go pick up from school here in a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:02

But yeah, I'm headed into teach uh as well, and you know, I I get it with the kid thing. Like, that is that is a um talking about things that you can control and you can't control, you know, like you know, there are there are days where I'm like, oh, it would have been so great right now to just be like chilling in a hotel room right now because I I have nowhere else I can go. I I just I have to play a gig tonight. So, oh well, if my kids need this, that, or the other, I'm not in town. Yeah, but then there's this flip side of that, which is I miss not being able to be there. Yeah, I certainly miss being able to support them at all of the things that they're as they get older, they're involved in. And after a while, the I can play a gig anytime. But what I can't do is be there as a father and be there to support them in the way that my parents were there for me. Now, granted, they weren't traveling, they were teachers, and they almost were around a little too much for my preference. But but that's that's probably what made me starting to start to feel this way is that I I'm at the age now, I just turned 50 in August, and like I hit this point where I'm starting to feel the things that I I thought I maybe resented about my dad, you know, like being strict and just being too hands-on all the time and like wishing that I had was able to get into trouble a little earlier, but so I didn't have to screw up so much towards college and drop out and go to LA and chase all this other stuff around. But you know, like now I'm like, oh, this is what it felt like. This is why he did this. And I don't need a huge thank you. I don't need like an award or a medal that like data the year, but what what I know I'm doing is that I'm creating these these bonds and these memories that will be around forever. And I can never get that time back. And if I had been gone, and I can see, I can track what everyone else is doing that's still in the band. And I know that their kids are or if what were whatever part of their life, you know, they're they're whether they feel that, whether they feel some sort of you know, vacancy or like they're not able to be around, that's that's not that's not on me. That's not that's beyond my control. But I knew I knew that I was A, feeling that, and then B, what you just said, which is all this other personal bullshit that was going on, was not being resolved. My concerns that I felt like were not just me trying to be a jerk, but me trying to bring up things that I I knew were I was not the only one feeling that were a distraction from the the being the I wanted to be the best band that we could be. I didn't care what the genre was, I didn't care what the venue was. On any given night, my ultimate goal was to play at the at the best of our ability and present the best musical project uh product as this project that I started. And and as soon as I saw it start to be the distractions that came around around that, and those weren't being, you know, appreciated, it made it much easier for me to go, okay, well then if I was already thinking about doing this anyway, then this is clearly what I needed to sort of push me over the edge. Yeah. And you know, I think we all kind of probably have that. I think with a lot of jobs in life, you're like, this isn't my my this is not the job that I'm going to to retire on. This is gonna be the end of me. But you know, if you're not really enjoying it and you're not contributing, because also selfishly, like I I also wanted to probably play with other musicians. Like I wanted to reach out to other people that I had not gotten a chance to play with and see, like, is this gonna make me grow more as a musician? Am I gonna be a better player if I get to have a conversation musically with other people? And I had just gotten into a rut, I think a little bit of trying to do too much, trying to play too many notes, and and and probably I I can say for sure, wasn't that was not fun for other musicians to hear me experimenting on a gig where they're like, come on, can we just play the song the way we always play it? Like, do you need to be do you need to be really trying all this other stuff? And that that was me, I 100% that was I was selfish in trying to do that. But you know, yeah, it is what it is. And um, and so yeah, I've got a I've got a, you know, my my my oldest just turned 16 on uh on Monday and got a car, and I've yet to even get a chance to like hang out with him and drive around. I'm taking him to get his license next week. So it's like I love being able to be around for all those things, but at the same time, that it's not like that's all easy, you know. There are still deadlines, there's still stress, there's still that like I'd rather just be sometimes out on a on a tour, gigging and doing what I love. But that's the it's not like one thing versus the other completed me. I still have a lot of, you know, um, I don't know. I there are nights I have crazy dreams about still being out, like seeing these guys like backstage hanging out, all the memories that we had. I still that's that's in embedded in me. It's ingrained in my DNA. I spent so much time and blood, sweat, and tears with that that I even when I gave it up, it wasn't like, well, you know, glad that's over with, on to the next thing. It it still clearly like uh stay is has stayed with me. And I I probably need a therapist at this point.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:34

Dude, that's the thing that like saved me so hard from all of the things.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:38

Oh, trust, trust. I I've gone to therapy and I I have had some virtual meetings. Like, I still I am not opposed to this. I'm not one of those people that's like, you know, oh that's for weak people, you know. Like I trust trust me, like I, yeah, but you know, this is just this is telling me it's so easy for me to talk to you, you know. That's another part of therapy. Is like if you don't if you don't bond with your therapist, what's the point?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:01

Like, yeah, you can't open up, yeah. Yeah, so but you were getting ready to ask me something, and I okay, so this is this is I'm gonna do this with everybody, and at the end, I'm gonna compile all of the answers because I was thinking about this the other day, and I'm like, how fun would it be to get the opinion of some of my favorite musicians and some of my favorite people on music? So, like in Family Feud at the end, when you do the bonus, like quick fire round where you have to, you know. So, I'm gonna ask you a couple questions that I want you to just off the top of your head, quick fire answer. And then at the end, we'll wrap it up and I'll let you tell listeners, like, you know, where to find you, upcoming projects, stuff like that. So, are you ready for the bonus round quick fire questions?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:50

Uh whether ready or not, I mean I guess we're doing we're doing this.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:54

This is about songs. In your opinion, what is the most beautiful song?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:05

I don't know that I can pick a single one, but all things must pass, George Harrison probably has the most long-lasting like I can say what a wonderful world by Louis Armstrong because I do that song always gets me, but um no, it's probably it's it's like isn't it a pity? George Harrison.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:30

Yeah. That's good choice. All right, moving on. Worst song ever.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:38

Ooh. YMCA.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:41

Oh, hell yeah. We had to teach my daughter how to dance to that at her very first school dance last week, and she's like, What the hell is this? It was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:52

Yeah, it's it's insulting to me too, because it's it's it's lumped in as a disco song. And I'm sorry, disco has some of the best rhythm section to. Off the wall is like one of my favorite records of all time. And it's it's disco grooves and beats. And so to to lump that in with that, not to mention, you know, he how who he who who shall not be named, you know, is is doing it at like rallies and stuff. And I'm like, you realize this is a gay anthem, and and and and like it's just the just the absolute hypocrisy of it is it just gets under my skin. So yeah, there we go.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:23

Well, and the the sick dance moves that are very fitting. Um I'm sure you've seen him dance to it. It's one of my favorite things ever.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:32

Uh if not sometimes I have to see it so that I can unsee it. You know, it's like when you get a song stuck in your head, the best thing to do is to just listen to that song to make it go away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:42

Okay. Saddest song.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:47

Ooh. Um I'm trying to remember Gilbert O'Sullivan. Um Alone Again Naturally.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:00

Oh yeah. Well, that song is really sad.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:06

Just all you have to do is start thinking every verse is another person in his life dies, and he's like, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna climb to the top of this bell tower and throw myself off.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:16

And you're like, Jesus Christ, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:19

It's so beautiful. It's so it's such like a Beatles melody to it, though, but like, oof. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:26

All right. Best love song.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:30

Oof. Ah, you know, I I could probably come up with a lot of great like soul songs um that I love, but I have to go with something by George Harrison again. I don't know. There's something about yeah, my my my youngest son is named Grady, which uh his middle name is Harrison, and we named him after after George. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:54

Yeah, one of the best to do it. Okay, best song to get pumped slash angry to.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:11

Um Killing in the Name of.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:14

I mean, there are there are certainly hipper songs from like closer to you know the 70s that I probably get like London calling, like some clash stuff that just gets you like wanting to like like you know, throw a bottle through a window or whatever. But no, that's uh yeah. Yeah, that's that's that's a good one. And you know, talk about political, you know, not being afraid to give a middle finger to everybody. So okay. You know what else I like though? And this is this was probably because I'm divorced, but uh, but like big shot, Billy Joel.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:51

Oh, that song freaking rocks.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:53

I love that song so it's got so much vitral, like it's just it's like uh and and and it's such a it's just uh I don't know. Yeah that that's probably that's probably like more like my 70s uh side coming out.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:04

So yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, I like that one a lot too. Um, all right, Mark. Well, this was really fun. Do you have anything that you'd love the listeners to know, like about upcoming projects, shows that you're a part of, any new releases?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:19

You know, for the longest time I was chasing that around. Like I had invested a lot of time and money into a website, and uh I'm you know, absolutely usually willing to plug myself um on that, but I decided to revamp and I all of all of the basic the look and the the you know the design was based around me playing in Yacht Rock. So uh I am currently working on getting that up and running. I do at least own my name. I had to buy it out from somebody who was like a, I don't know, who was like a ex-NFL football player, Mark Cobb. So www.marccobb.com will be up and running again as soon as I finish the uh uh the layout. But that will have um, you know, it it has all of my upcoming dates. It has a audio example of all the the music that I've uh played on over the years and um you know, et cetera, and some some cool photos and bio and all that stuff. But in the meantime, I mean you can always follow me on question mark cob, which is spelled out, you know, the word question, um, M-A-R-K-C-O-B-B. That's my Instagram handle. And that's usually where people are able to see, like, you know, at least when I post photos of shows or you know, any sort of like musical stuff that I have. There's a lot of kids stuff too there. You know, I'm really proud um of you know all my kids and what they're up to right now. And so I I share a lot of stuff there. Also, that's how my mom is able to keep up with me. So she can always, she's like always the first one to like and comment on and whatever I post. Um, so yeah, that you know, as far as projects coming up, uh, like I said, I've got the I've I've got the potential Mellen Camp um tribute, which has got some really great uh musicians. This guy, Aaron Thompson, who actually would be another person for you to talk to. He just stopped last year performing with uh with an ABBA tribute that tours around the country all the time and was in that, and he's got a lot of great stories about what that project was like. So I can always connect you guys, but uh yeah, please do.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:21

That'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:21

But he's an absolute beast of a guitar player, and um, I've I've enjoyed playing with him and Mike Veal's band on the side, and he'll he'll be in the Mellon Camp thing. And then um, I'm honestly I'll have to tell you uh there's a project, it's not really off the ground yet, but we've started filming some content, and I will send you a video, a YouTube link, of a 90s like tribute that's sort of centered around the the that scene from I don't know if you ever saw the documentary Meet Me in the Bathroom, but it's like the yeah yeah yeah and the strokes and L C D sound system and Interpol. It's that gritty New York kind of like what happened where you know, every every 10 years there's like a return to somebody wanted to make disco, which I feel like is Dua Lipa and like a Sabrina Carpenter and Chapalone, and like it's that like kind of like early 80s sound is so big. Harry Styles, I really liked that Harry's house record. Like, there's a very, you know, aesthetically thing that happens where people go back to 10 years or 20 years from you know when they first had that scene. That punk, that like 70s Ramones kind of clash thing, I feel like had a resurgence there in the in the early 2000s. So we're doing a tribute to that. It's a bunch of musicians who you probably don't know that I hadn't played with, but Emily, uh my girlfriend is actually singing in it. And um we have got a we're working on putting a promo together for that. So that will be coming up probably into summer. We'll we'll start playing some shows. Um totally different, totally different vibe than than the 70s yacht rocks stuff. But like I said, it's cool. I'm I'm not I cannot be defined, which is the question mark nickname. I I'm very much a chameleon. I can't really be defined by one thing. I like to be able to branch out and try all sorts of different stuff. And um in fact, it's crazy. You and I have never performed together. I think it would be fun sometimes if we're ever in the same place to like you know get together and just get some get some musicians on stage and play a bunch of songs. I feel like we could probably have a lot, a lot of similar material we could, we could vibe on.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:27

All right, man. Well, have a good rest of your day, have fun teaching and uh enjoy the pollening, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:34

Uh uh yeah. Uh Emily has a great shirt of uh pollinates. I saw that.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:39

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:40

Yeah, that was uh yeah, that was that was a a rare find I had to get. Yeah, that's that is definitely the uh the most inside joke. That's your that's your make tribute bands uh great again. That's our version of that. Yeah. Um but yeah, so great. So great talking to you. Thank you for um you know uh thinking of me. And uh hopefully this is something you can edit because I know there's probably a lot of a lot of uh fat you could trim off this if you want.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:05

No, I don't feel like there's any editing that needs to be done at all. It was really fun chatting with you and you had a lot of insight. So um, you know, maybe we'll do a round two here soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:16

It would be my pleasure. Yeah, I feel like we always have plenty to talk about, and uh, you know, good luck to you. Have a great rest of your week, and we will definitely be talking soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:26

And that wraps up my conversation with Mark Cobb. We covered a little bit of everything, from building a band and leaving a legacy to the sometimes complicated relationship between music and politics, and what it really looks like to balance life on the road with the people waiting for you back at home. One of the things I loved most about this conversation is being reminded that behind every record, every tour, and every career, there are real people trying to make art, make a living, and make it home for dinner. Mark also put together a special playlist of songs he's played on over the years, and I'll have a link to that in the show notes. Trust me, you'll recognize more than a few of them. Until then, definitely check out his website, www.markcobb.com, and follow him on Instagram, question markcobb. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time.